Where are YOU escaping to? - Liberty.me

Where are YOU escaping to?

Tags: internationalization living abroad

troi+ April 24, 2014 at 12:21 pm

Interested in knowing where some of my fellow liberty.me friends are escaping to?

I want to buy property in Central or South America. My price range is $200,000 to $500,000 and I want to get something on a beach that I can rent out for income. It appears that Canadians can get financing in Panama and Costa Rica so I am interested in these countries. Mexico is also of interest because of it’s proximity. My purpose is to diversify because I am 100% invested within Canada currently. And I want to follow Doug Casey’s advice and have a second bolt hole in case the shit hits the fan.

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Toni Sopocko April 24, 2014 at 3:38 pm

I understand there are issues in Mexico with foreigners purchasing property at the coast. You should check that before doing it.

My cousin lived in Costa Rica for years. Not right on the ocean, more inland, where he was doing subsistence farming. It got too cluttered with gringos and their statist ways for him! So about 4 years ago he moved to Panama, and, other than the quality of medical care down there, he’s been pretty happy. Pretty free.

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  Cathy Cuthbert May 16, 2014 at 4:16 am
  
  Currently, when buying near the coast in Mex as an extranjero, you need to do so thru a specific type of trust. The lawyers there can organize this, it’s done all the time. However, apparently, the Mex gov’t is repealing this requirement and fairly soon this won’t be necessary. Will save some bucks and heartburn. I haven’t checked on the status of this repeal recently, but i suspect one could search the interwebs and find out.
  
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DS April 30, 2014 at 5:37 pm

Just did a nice six month tour around South America and not sure where I’d consider moving. I have plans to check out South East Asia hopefully later this year as well, so we’ll see after that.

I did however start the process of acquiring residency in Paraguay as a way of keeping my options open. I’m not sure I’d permanently relocate there, but this way I can at least open a bank account and possibly buy property there to diversify my assets.

I’d also really like to visit Rancho Santana in Nicaragua as well. I like the look of the development and they have a managed rental program.

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Roger Browne May 16, 2014 at 10:42 am

You could consider the little liberty cluster that has developed around Jeff Berwick’s AcaCondos scheme in Acapulco, Mexico.

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Lincoln Gardner May 16, 2014 at 11:57 am

Here is a link to a video I made of our house at Rancho Santana, Nicaragua. We call it Villa Espiral because it is designed in the shape of a logarithmic spiral.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avAd21JJqIk

It’s not for rent anymore but there are other places for rent at Rancho Santana. See rentals.ranchosantana.com. I have other videos of Nicaragua on my youtube channel if you’re interested.

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Joseph Perrelli July 29, 2014 at 11:47 pm

This has to be said and maybe I am being a bit harsh. You all want to run from the problem hoping someone else has fixed it for you somewhere else. you all know how to talk but none of you are willing to fight. I will admit I thought about running to at one point, but we are in the best place possible to make changes. The United States as it stands can’t and wont last we all know this, if you were willing to fight you would see this. I plan on staying and fighting with others who decide to do more than talk about liberty. To quote Gandhi be the change you want to see in the world.

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  Adam Hoisington July 30, 2014 at 9:11 am
  
  Explicitly withdrawing consent and leaving the farm is a way more effective tactic than physically fighting anyone. Violence is the way of the state. Playing by their rules isn’t all that fun and there is no guarantee of success. Quitting their game entirely does guarantee that you won’t lose. As for your assertion of, “You all want to run from the problem hoping someone else has fixed it for you somewhere else.” Well, that’s not true. I rather doubt anyone here really expects that they could move to any other country and the problem (which is the state – any state) is solved. They just hope to move to a place where the problem is much smaller than the largest and most powerful problem (in the case of US citizens).
  
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Joseph Perrelli July 29, 2014 at 11:49 pm

That being said have have nothing against a plan B.

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Todd Markey July 30, 2014 at 12:08 am

Leaving a repressive environment IS fighting. Its a vote with your dollars, which is vastly more important to the tyrants than some political action you can take. As more and more people opt out physically, rather than just philosophically, the ruling class has fewer and fewer productive people to leach off of and their power will wane faster and faster.

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Joseph Perrelli July 30, 2014 at 2:11 pm

Both of you are wrong on several counts. 1st leaving is fighting this is simply not the case for a few reasons. One so many people wold have to leave to make a difference to the state in this way it would take every person in the country with a passport revoking there citizenship if not more. Two they have now placed a very large tax on doing this as a so called “tax evasion measure”. Three it will just get bad somewhere else over time no state is immune to this. 2nd count how is fighting them playing by there rules? every guerrilla war the US has fought in that it it wasn’t the gorilla force they have lost. Also the British the largest military force at the time were defeated to found this nation it can and has been done. 3rd count violence is the way of the state this is a half truth. States do use violence to enforce power however according to the NAP the right of self defense is a basic human right and there is no possible way to argue the state is not an aggressor. 4th and final count none of this changes the fact you are still running for safety rather than fighting for what will likely be one of the best opportunity’s for liberty in the 21st century. To quote Benjamin Franklin “They that can give up essential liberty to attain a little temporary safety deserve nether liberty nor safety.”

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  Adam Hoisington July 30, 2014 at 2:41 pm
  
  I would say expatriating is “fighting”. Just because you don’t think it’s a winning strategy means nothing. This is semantic anyway. And also not my words, so I’ll leave them to Todd to defend.
  
  Paying exit taxes are typically worth it because you’ll end up paying other taxes over time that amount to more than the exit tax. And, there is always the possibility that you pay none because you have nothing to tax. Sure, they may make it so burdensome to leave that it becomes better for you to not leave. This is simply another reason to get out while you can.
  
  Things getting worse elsewhere is certainly possible. But saying it’s not a good idea to go to those places is like saying, “Don’t leave this area where the forest is burning to go to another forest because, someday, that other forest may burn down too.” Who cares? It’s bad here, I’m leaving for someplace not-so-bad.
  
  Fighting a war, as one does in combat, is playing by their rules. In some situations, one is forced to do it. But it’s not ideal. Also, how has that revolution against the British worked out for you? Better than it otherwise would be? Maybe. Maybe not.
  
  But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain – that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case, it is unfit to exist.
  -Lysander Spooner
  
  Sure “violence” isn’t necessarily only done by the state. But I think we can all be intellectually honest here and understand that when I said “Violence is the way of the state”, I obviously meant “Initiated, aggressive violence is the way of the state.”
  
  You assume that my running for safety is a bad thing. You take it for granted that running from the danger is inherently bad. The fact that you think we “are still running for safety rather than fighting for what will likely be one of the best opportunity’s for liberty in the 21st century” is just begging the question. Expatriates, and would-be expatriates, disagree about the existent of such opportunities to begin with.
  
  Lastly, your and Ben Franklin’s opinion about what expatriates deserve, is irrelevant.
  
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Joseph Perrelli July 30, 2014 at 2:51 pm

Ok understood most of that but I don’t see how the Ben Franklin quote is irreverent. Your just running from one government to another that’s better now but will in all likelihood get worse as time goes on that’s temporary safety. Also as a side note if this keeps going I am going to transplant it to another topic as I don’t want to hijack the thread.

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foobar July 30, 2014 at 4:36 pm

I’m appreciating all this and will be back to press some
buttons when they work again. My own tack for quite awhile
now has also been to run away “in place.”

Admittedly some of this is age talking, but then there’s no
getting back to Hongkong 1970 anyway, when airports were
almost fun, not the ferocious docility-training centers they
have become.

Ah, let me rub it in a bit: Rooms in the grottier parts of
Kowloon were $2/night (perfectly okay), ferries 4 cents,
and mysterious old bookshops would sell you things. Just down
the hallway-slash-street you could always count on a bowl of
midnight noodles. It was always night somehow, just like
living in a giant’s mouth, one said, what with the 100%
humidity, 98.6 temp, and odd things rotting in every corner.
Reverie over.

Today, well, things can be (almost) that romantic still. For
some of us that means no more travel, no car, careful eating
and modest digs. For there are still the midnight noodles,
exotic languages to read, and constant letters to like-minded
travelers. That way we can say, “The State, whazzat?” If you
do it right you can even enjoy that annual ritual of nose-
thumbing the State, that 10-minute exercise of filling out
tax forms with a bunch of zeros after approximately line 2.

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  Toni Sopocko July 30, 2014 at 10:09 pm
  
  *sigh* I was never in Hong Kong, but I have fond memories of Kauai in the 70s. Rent was $50 a month, and we had beach parties where we’d show surf movies we took with a super 8 encased in a home made plexiglas water housing. Drag the projector, screen and the vinyl record player down to the beach. BBQ chicken leg quarters that we’d buy for $2.00 for the 20# case. . . Good times.
  
  Wouldn’t want to go back there now, though, to live. Extreme left statist now, and crowded and expensive. Still beautiful, but nope. I’ll stick with Nevada until I can figure out a way to move to Alaska.
  
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Ahriman July 30, 2014 at 7:53 pm

I like the idea of “running away in place.” The stategy ties in curiously with Wendy McElroy’s recent article (much recommended) on running away rather than standing one’s ground:

http://wendymcelroy.liberty.me/2014/07/27/flee-rather-than-stand-your-ground/?refer=libertyme

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Todd Markey July 31, 2014 at 12:42 am

“Your just running from one government to another that’s better now but will in all likelihood get worse as time goes on that’s temporary safety.”

To continue Adam’s analogy, this part of the forest is burning. I’m going to leave it. If the place I go to starts burning also, I will leave that. Naturally, I am going to choose a place where I believe maximum freedom awaits, but knowing that things change over time, I am not going to put down roots to the point where I couldn’t leave that place. Who knows, maybe the u.s. will be the best place to live again at some point in my life. That’s fine . . . I’d come back.

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Joseph Perrelli July 31, 2014 at 12:28 pm

The above statement implys you are the only one affected by the fire. There will be many people trying to put it out and you plan to walk away from making that change. it also means you are still willing to put up with government. As I said all of you talk good but none of you would ever truly back it up. To quote Gandhi again be the change you want to see in the world. Also I thought this topic deserved its own thread please make all future posts about it in Stay or leave.

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Zachary July 31, 2014 at 12:38 pm

I went ahead and moved the expatriation/standing ground discussion to another thread:

http://liberty.me/discussions/stay-and-fight-vs-gtfo/

All of y’all’s invited.

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Joseph Perrelli July 31, 2014 at 2:35 pm

Didn’t I just say I did that already?

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  Adem Tumerkan August 21, 2014 at 2:39 pm
  
  I would like to go east. I would like to be part of the growth in the emerging markets. Think of the potential in Dubai and Singapore and Ulaanbaatar in Mongolia. Its incredible what is going on. I would escape to somewhere with maximum freedoms and no debt (unless its free market debt that two people contract and/or productive debts such as business loans) and especially a sound currency. I hope that if I become wealthy and have a wealthy group of friends we may purchase a autonomous city state and write a constitution and see it prosper.
  
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    Rick Rule August 21, 2014 at 4:04 pm
    
    agree completely if making money is the primary goal. Get yourself in the way of emerging fortunes. If I were 30 years younger, I would commute between Shanghai or Singapore and Dubai or Abu Dhabi. You would have to try hard in order NOT to become rich
    
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    Toni Sopocko August 21, 2014 at 4:14 pm
    
    I remember when I found out Jim Rogers had moved to Singapore. I’d just read his books, and thought, well, THAT is where the money and power must be headed. . . and it still looks that way!
    
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    - Rick Rule August 21, 2014 at 4:25 pm
      
      I suspect if money were less of an issue, I personally might try Chile. A lot like California in the 1950’5, great weather, mountains and the ocean, drop dead pretty.
      
      Downsides, not free, where is?
      
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    - Adem Tumerkan August 21, 2014 at 4:38 pm
      
      Rick I agree. Living in Scottsdale where everyone my generation is still living at home with their entire life,from college to mortgage to vehicles to credit card debts, is being financed by low interest rates. I have formed my own conclusion of this area being a toxic bubble due to everyone going out and paying $1000 dollars for bottle service at the night clubs and when women are now getting breast implants on finance payments.. I assure everyone there are no shortages of bartenders here.
      
      Do you have any experience in Dubai? If so, is it as great as people say?
      
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    - Rick Rule August 21, 2014 at 6:11 pm
      
      I have a fair bit of experience in Dubai. I have good friends and business connections there. It would not be my first choice for lifestyle, but I was thinking specifically in terms of persona economic advantage.
      
      The leaders of the UAE are conscious of the uniqueness of their political franchise. They prosper by by building a platform for capital to profit. By controlling the land infrastructure and service, they enjoy a de facto royalty on all economic activity, but they have to be customer focused, so their ability to extract economic rent is very leveraged to customer satisfaction.
      
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    - Adem Tumerkan August 21, 2014 at 9:40 pm
      
      Interesting. Thanks for the information I will look into it more.
      
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    - Toni Sopocko August 21, 2014 at 4:41 pm
      
      Looked at Chile myself, back in the 80s. For the very reasons you mention. But, we didn’t do it, and now, at nearly 60, we’re of modest means, with too many irons in the fire here. So I don’t see leaving the US unless something really drastic happens. But if it does, Chile seems very doable. And I almost understand Spanish. . .
      
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    - Chip Marce August 21, 2014 at 5:18 pm
      
      Considering a future move to New Hampshire. On the cold end for my tastes, but it’s the people that make a place, not the physical surroundings. If the FSP pulls off what it hopes to, then NH will be fun central for the liberty friendly.
      
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    - Mike Vroman August 21, 2014 at 7:09 pm
      
      One thing conspicuously missing from the list is what would be my prefered place…..a bus or RV, pulling a trailer with a motorcycle for day trips and goods to exchange plus tools for repair jobs.
      
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    - Toni Sopocko August 21, 2014 at 8:34 pm
      
      Yes, YAY, Mike! That’s our absolute favorite thing to do now, and plan to do it a lot more in the next year or so. Bought the trailer we think we can live with for awhile, and we pull it with the Tundra, motorcycles in the pickup bed. If we really had to, we could live that way. . . and it wouldn’t be half bad!
      
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    - Mike Vroman August 21, 2014 at 8:44 pm
      
      I always thought it would be nice to make a summer road trip to Fairbanks, then travel down to New Mexico by winter.
      
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    - Jeffrey Papineau August 21, 2014 at 9:53 pm
      
      Interesting topic I have discussed with a few friends.
      
      Over time I’ve come to believe that being near family, and finding community that I enjoy to be the things I look for. (As well as closed sewers, hot running water, internet connection, and a sink and toilet.)
      
      A flower blooms where it is planted in many ways. Moving to a foreign land where I am obviously an outsider (at least at first) has little appeal. I would recommend traveling for a while, seeing a lot of places. My travels over the course of a year or so, time spent over-seas, etc made me love the US in many ways. But it also made me respect others with different views than my own..
      
      I have to look at eco footprint these days. The jig is really up globally, and wanting to “make money in emerging markets” these days usually means polluting the earth far more than tending to it. If the Bees die, we die.. and China is polluting the world faster now at unprecedented scale. So pulling my house around behind my truck, is not an option…
      
      Then there is that fact of being dependent on a state. Pretty much the entire Monopoly board is now filled with owner states and it’s not going to be easy to find someplace with real community that doesn’t have some kind of state to deal with. But even more important to me, is good weather and fun intelligent people to party with!
      
      There are many kinds of Freedom in this world. Economic freedoms, freedom to partake and purchase as I please, freedom to indulge in behaviors that do not harm others, freedom of speech. Personally, I think hiding in plain site makes a lot of sense. I plan on the state being corrupt, where ever I choose to live. I plan on being taxed if my income can be monitored. I plan on being charged with crimes and even prison if complaints are made against me. Being under the radar can prevent most of this.
      
      Blend. Defer. Deflect. Dance. Do a Doobie 😉
      
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    - Josh Wells August 25, 2014 at 4:00 pm
      
      Where you choose to escape to depends largely on what it is you are escaping from. Unfortunately there is no libertarian utopia that has maximum freedom in all aspects of life. Different places are better than others in different areas. You need to prioritize those freedoms which are most important to you. For me economic freedom is very important. I hate paying taxes. Right now I live and work in the middle east. No income tax where I am. No sales tax. No tax of any kind that I have encountered so far. Now because I carry a US passport Uncle Sam still takes a piece of what I make over $97,500 but having that first almost $100k income tax free is a big deal. It is that much more money I can save and invest. Back in the US I love my guns. Here, no freedom whatsoever to own one. Also social freedoms are more restricted here. Can’t legally live with someone of the opposite sex outside of marriage and if you do end up in legal trouble well let’s just say the “wheels of justice” might turn slower than they would in the west. On the other hand this is a fantastic location for travel. For less than a thousand dollars I can fly round trip to just about any place in Europe, and many parts of Africa and Asia. Just in the last 18 months I’ve been able to visit Petra, Ethiopia, Oman, Argentina, and Turkey and I’ve done it at a fraction of the expense that would be involved if I were still living in the US. It’s a trade off. For now it works for me. If I were a couple decades older and financially independent there are certainly places that provide a better quality of life and I might be more willing to trade that for less economic freedom.
      
      If anyone has questions about the middle east just ask. Top spots I would recommend for either visiting or expats are Dubai and Oman. Dubai has more opportunity and a higher cost of living. Oman is beautiful and friendly, a great place to visit for lovers of nature and history.
      
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    - Josh Wells August 25, 2014 at 4:10 pm
      
      To Troi, where ever you decide to go I would recommend not buying until you have spent some time living in a place. The only way you will know if a place really suits you is to spend some time living there. You may also find that the return in rents on a property costing $200k+ in one of these countries doesn’t provide a very good return. You may be better off investing that money elsewhere and then renting in whatever country you are in.
      
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    - Adem Tumerkan August 25, 2014 at 4:15 pm
      
      John. How did you like Turkey? I am Turkish descent and first generation American here and have been there a few times to visit family but last year when my father passed I was not able to go. My cousins and friends business I do abroad there say the government is a power trip but they are hopeful due to the young population wanting liberty. Any opinion on this?</p>
      
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    - Rick Rule August 25, 2014 at 7:04 pm
      
      I would LOVE to spend more time in Turkey. What a spectacular place. I suspect a right minded person could make money their too. Not so free, I suspect, and I’m told fairly corrupt. although in my experience it has not been corrupt at all. I suspect the only way not to like Turkey would be if you were bind, and could not see it’s beauty, and did not like to eat.
      
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    - Josh Wells August 25, 2014 at 11:52 pm
      
      I took a three day weekend and went to Istanbul so haven’t spent an extensive amount of time there but I crammed in as much as I could. If you’re into history you will love Istanbul. The Hagia Sophia was amazing. It would be an impressive structure if built today but the fact it was built by hand without power tools or heavy machinery is just incredible. Can also recommend the Basilica Cistern and the Archaeological Museums.
      
      As muslim countries go Turkey is definitely the most socially free but keep in mind this is all relative. I stayed with a local through airbnb which I much prefer to a hotel. We talked a bit about the protests and politics but I’m by no means an expert. I think just about any where you go the younger generations tend to lean towards more personal freedom but it’s important to remember that being resistant to the current regime does not make one a champion of freedom. There are openly Marxist-Leninist groups there that seem to be pretty strong at least in certain areas. My understanding of the Taksim protests is that they were caused by a heavy handed government response to earlier smaller protests.
      
      Although there is still much in Istanbul I didn’t get to see if I were to go back I would visit other parts of Turkey. Cappadocia, Pamukkale, and Ephesus would top the list.
      
      Of the countries I have visited since I’ve been over here if I had to choose one to try to make a buck as an entrepreneur I think it would be Ethiopia.
      
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    - David Montgomery August 26, 2014 at 2:38 pm
      
      I second Rick’s thoughts on Turkey. Incredible food and sunset over Istanbul is a uniquely breathtaking sight.
      
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Adem Tumerkan August 26, 2014 at 6:13 pm

I have been investing in a Mongolia fund (also did an article on them Mongolia Growth Group) and just got off the phone with a couple Mongolia funds that tell me great things about the country. Anyone have any experience in Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia?

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  Rick Rule August 26, 2014 at 7:10 pm
  
  By all accounts a hard place, a frontier market. Great place for a reasonably well healed YOUNG hustler to get rich. GDP growth for the next five years will be nuts. It would be hard to screw it up.
  The government will evolve, meaning get worse. Corruption is problematic now, meaning that a skilled operator can work very efficiently
  
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Adem Tumerkan August 26, 2014 at 7:24 pm

Gary Kucher, the funds director, and I agree. I have never been but Ulaanbaatar looks great and the resource potential looks even greater especially with the nerigboring countries. Too bad the government there is ruining the world class Oyi Tolgoi mine. I hope the young population becomes better educated and removes these parasitic governments. Business would be so much better.

Thanks for the input on the countries. Turkey is beautiful with amazing history. I miss it but the government and middle East situation there isn’t appealing me currently. such a shame how politics ruin places.

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James Slagowski March 17, 2016 at 11:06 am

Hello, Some good comments and interesting places. I am retired military and have gotten to travel to a lot of places that most people only dream about and some others that people have never heard of. A lot of people are talking about places in Central America and most mention Costa Rica and Panama. I found my bolthole and my parents already moved there. It doesn’t fit everyone’s ideal but it fits mine, ready to guess? How about Belize? It is the only English speaking country in Central America. The government is basically non interventionist. I am not expatriating as I am a military retiree and if I give up my citizenship, I lose my pension. I am becoming a long term resident. Yes, you can own property, you want a condo? Well, you can do that even on the beach. You want acreage? It is available and reasonable, I bought 3 acres about 200 feet off the Belize River just outside of the capital of Belmopan. The country is basically 3rd world as far as infrastructure, only the highways and city streets are paved, everything else is dirt or gravel or rock. My parents live about 5 miles outside the capital and they just got cable internet. Before this, the only internet available was with a wireless dongle and was quite expensive to use with a low data limit. Other than that, electricity and piped water is there but you have to have a septic system as there is no sewer system except in Belize City and Belmopan proper. You can invest in businesses but be careful as rich Americans and Canadians become targets but if you are careful and don’t flash money, no one will bother you. Don’t bring checks, no business takes them, all cash or credit card. The Belize Dollar is pegged to the US Dollar at $0.50, so 2 BZ = $1 US. Take it as you will but I am voting with my feet and going to a place I want to be.

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Concerned Kiwi March 19, 2016 at 5:51 pm

Can anyone comment about Uruguay? Probably close to Punta del Este.

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Wesley Deaton March 19, 2016 at 9:30 pm

Excellent discussion, and I was hoping to find more of this on the board when I joined. We can sit here talking libertarian theory all we like but there’s something to be said about voting with your feet.

@Concerned Kiwi I can give you my very superficial glimpse of Uruguay after traveling there for a week a few years ago. First, I’ll give you a bit about reputation. A lot of the “international traveling” mags touted it as a possible libertarian-limited government type destination a few years ago. However, many of the folks who’ve made the move probably wouldn’t agree, and there seem to be complaints about the bureaucracy there. One person who stayed long enough to get a passport and was denied was a gentleman whose blog you can find by googling “expat bob uruguay.” I believe he spends time in Chile now. He’s fairly entertaining and is a bit embittered by the experience.

That aside, I went to Uruguay in the shoulder season of December, when the weather was nice and getting warm, but before the tourists had arrived in force to the beach areas. My friend and I rented a car and rode all down the coast past PDE, then looped back around and went all the way up north west to Colonia, before driving back down to Montevideo.

As for the country as a whole, I enjoyed it. I enjoy traveling through Latin America, and it would appear that Uruguay is the most ethnically European country in South America. Shortly after arriving, while eating lunch at a cafe, some woman came up and began asking me directions in her native Spanish. My point is that if you wanted a place in Latin America where you would likely blend in, Uruguay would be such a place if you were Caucasian or Hispanic. Outside of the cities, it was very rural and unassuming. Driving through the countryside we saw young (pre-teen or teen) boys walking through fields with small hunting rifles doing some Sunday hunting.

The food was very good, but heavily meat based–not that I complained.

The beaches are the equivalent of mid-Atlantic beaches in the United States in terms of their layout and topography. Because of currents, the water is quite a bit cooler even in the warm months. There wasn’t a whole lot going on when I rode through since it wasn’t high season. My friend and I stayed in Piriapolis, an hour or so away from PDE. It’s not as glamorous as PDE and may be a bit older, but I thought it was nice. PDE is a very interesting phenomenon. Heavily traveled by Argentines, it has the main area (with lots of condos), then a higher-end, quieter chic beach (Jose Ignacio), and then as best as I could tell there was another subset of folks who liked having mini-farms near the beach rather than a place right at the beach. The mags refer to PDE as the “St. Tropez of South America,” but to me, with the high-rises, and out-of-area travelers I referred to it as being more the Myrtle Beach of South America. Lots of beautiful areas all around PDE, but the downtown PDE did nothing for me. I drove further down in the Rocha district and really enjoyed the small beach town of La Paloma.

Only downside I saw with Uruguay in my short visit was that it might end up being a little boring. It’s small compared to its neighbor Argentina, and doesn’t have the geographic diversity. Also, for better or worse, it has four full seasons. The latitude is similar to the southeastern US (NC, SC, GA), but never gets quite as cold (no snow) or as hot. My friend and I often travel to places with an eye toward investment, vacations, or an alternative place to live. We both agree that this is a place where we could live comfortably and reasonably well if need be.

@James Slagowski: I’ve spent dozens of trips in Belize, and really enjoyed it. Something about Belize is infectious. Lots of us go and think we’ve found paradise. Some folks end up getting sick of it if they move/live/invest there after a while. I’d say I’m in the middle ground. My rose colored glasses are no longer on, but I still like a lot about it.

It’s been a few years since I’ve visited, but it still has a bit of magic for me. The prices of everything have gone up radically since I first came there but the infrastructure has improved nearly as much. Crime is a problem, and in areas with a gringo population, gringos can sometimes be looked at as targets by bad guys and as moneypots by opportunists. Belize is the first and only place where I’ve seen a murder victim up close as I was driving by. Also, I am even familiar with (had met) a couple of different people who later were murder victims. Given the relatively small amount of time I’d spent in the place and relatively few people I’d have met, that’s remarkable.

Of all the times I’ve been, I’ve not traveled much to the Cayo area where you’ve bought land. We drove through Belmopan for lunch once on the way to Placencia, if I recall. A very nice area, and far more affordable than some of the touristy parts of Belize. Could my wife and I live in Belize? Probably. We’re not as wide-eyed as we were when we first started visiting, but we still like the country as a whole. If I were referring to “five flag theory,” I wouldn’t put a banking flag or a business flag in Belize (though I’ve bought land and still own land there). It’s definitely a place for me to put a “playground” flag or to do residency.

Thanks for bearing with my rant, and thanks for the discussion.

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  Concerned Kiwi March 20, 2016 at 3:41 am
  
  Wow. Thank you so much.
  
  Now I’m intrigued by other places in SA. How about Brazil? Can anyone help with that? What else is worth considering? Would anyone consider Portugal? Portugal allows people to stay as retirees, but I’m not sure what the requirements are. Too close to where the action is?
  
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    Kevin Victor March 20, 2016 at 1:24 pm
    
    For whatever reason, I have noticed Americans are more comfortable with Hispanic countries in Latin America than Brazil. You’ll see more European, Asian, or Australian tourists than people from the States. I am only really familiar with Rio de Janeiro but anywhere along the coast is awesome, although certain places in the northeast/north are pretty underdeveloped.
    
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