How are some ways that those of us who support individual rights can begin working more closely together to advance our main goal, that of increasing freedom?
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Working together.
How are some ways that those of us who support individual rights can begin working more closely together to advance our main goal, that of increasing freedom?
I think co-location is underrated. That’s why I really like ideas such as the Free State Project that seek to put like minded people in one physical place. While the internet is making this a bit less relevant, I’d argue that people are just, well, chummy. They like to be around other people and when you get a critical mass of like minded and positive people in one place things start getting very interesting.
I love the idea of the free state, but I am a westerner, with no desire to move to the east coast. Where we are, Nevada, used to be pretty libertarian by default. Ornery folks in the desert who preferred to be left alone, and generally were, because nobody else wanted to be here. But as California has become unbearably expensive, they are moving here. In droves. And bringing their expectations and voting patterns with them.
In the past it was pretty easy to find like-minded people here, and in many areas of the state that’s still true. But it’s becoming harder, as the Feds are becoming more aggressive in their control of western lands, and government-educated (indoctrinated) people become the majority.
We still try to talk to people, gently persuade them to come to the realization that freedom is better than comfy slavery, but it’s VERY difficult. The lines between left and right are so rigid now, that most people assume if you are not on their side of the line, you are on the other and you are automatically an enemy.
Sorry for the rant. It’s been a tough day.
It sounds as if you have had similar results there as we have had in Minnesota, but for different reasons.
How do we increase freedom?
Civics class taught us to get involved in politics. Experience teaches us that politics wastes our time. In the context of Mike’s question, politics can’t solve the problem, because the members of the alliance he proposes do not have identical political goals. What alternative can we pursue instead?
That’s a very good question. My answer is that although our long term goals are different, our short term goals are much more similar. Easier travel, lower taxes, lessening the militarization of the government agencies, cutting regulations, less intervention abroad, etc, etc.
Are there some of these things that we could focus on together for the short term, at least until we set the collectivist, big government types back a bit?
We’ve seen this work in regards to marriage and marijuana, can we make this a model on other subjects?
I think reduction of the breadth and scope of police services is something that most all of us would like to see in the short term. Some people focus on the application of those services to people and pets. Others are more concerned about the liberty implications. And then conservatives such as myself are concerned about the high cost for limited crime reduction benefits.
I think that, depending on how we proceed, our goals may be much more similar by the time we actually arrive at the long term.
Assuming politics is off the table, we could start a business, or a church, or a social club, or a charity, etc. What sort of organization would tempt state worshippers to participate in freedom?
What need do we have that such an enterprise could satisfy?
What sort of activity makes the old one-size-fits-all top-down solution look really old fashioned? Open source software development, maker movement (3D printing/DIY), tiny homes, online sharing services like Uber, …
Assuming politics is off the table, we could start a business, or a church, or a social club, or a charity, etc. What sort of organization would tempt state worshippers to participate in freedom?
People are primarily interested in their own self interest. Something clever that I saw on another conversation has some possibility; giving folks some de minimis amount of bitcoin to try it out. I would expand the concept to something like a bitcoin play area where noobs such as myself could play with tiny amounts of bitcoin or lite coin or whatever. Try out different wallets. Send tiny amounts all over the place.
Unfortunately, buying bitcoin looks to be a bit of a pain. This allows noobs to in effect try before they buy.
Also in third world countries the de minimis amounts we’re talking about aren’t so de minimis from their perspective. Nothing like inspired self interest to motivate behavioral changes.
Chip, policing is a key area, especially in light of the fact that while many police agencies are becoming militarized, the people are faced with a harder time protecting themselves, both through restrictive laws and liability which frequently favors the aggressor.
Dave, I like your suggestion of social clubs and charities. These are happening in my area now, run by people with little or no political affiliation, sometimes without religious affiliation, either. The two best example are food banks and projects similar to Habitat for Humanity. What better way to encourage people to want to join with us than by starting our own projects along that vein? It may even give us a chance to demonstrate how much more efficiently we can run a charity than big brother.
Well, I can think of several potential solutions. When you exclude politics from the mix, which seems to be the general theme, it makes it more challenging. Here are a few things that others might want to explore
1. Open carry in states that allow it. People who open carry have little need for police services. I believe that once you hit a critical mass, I don’t know maybe 10-20% of the adult population, the need for police services drops drastically. Those who would be so inclined to commit criminal acts are going to go elsewhere.
2. Hue and cry. This is the way that serious problems were handled pre-police. If a crime was witnessed, people had the duty to raise the hue and cry and pursue. With texting and GPS positioning, it should be relatively easy to raise a digital hue and cry. I’d rather rely on my neighbors show up anyway; they’re closer.
3. Use of posse’s. These still exist, but are used relatively rarely with a few exceptions. Volunteer police for all effects and purposes. Volunteer fire departments work just fine. Why not volunteer police?
4. Use of statistical probability and behavioral analysis models for crime prediction and prevention. These sorts of behavioral model techniques are already used by police. What is to prevent private use?
Enjoy.
I love the idea of the free state, but I am a westerner, with no desire to move to the east coast.
Yeah, I grew up out west and had no desire to live on the east coast, either. Until I had to. And then you know what? I decided that by and large I preferred it. I like the work ethic, the somewhat faster pace, and the fact that everything is GREEN! I miss the wide open spaces of the west, but I came to realize that most people in the west live in cities anyway. So if you want to go out in the country you’ve got to drive regardless.
Yeah, well, I don’t live in the city, and have no plans to ever do so. Guess a lot of folks do live in the city, for work or pleasure, but I never have. Other than Las Vegas and Reno (the seats of the only 2 blue counties in NV) the state has always been rural. We’re losing that pretty quickly, but it’s not turning urban, more sluburban. Californians are used to commuting long distances. . .
It’s just such a shame that people run away from what they’ve created, then promptly soil their new homes. They’re so convinced that statism is the only way to live; Liberty scares most people. They can’t imagine allowing “others” to live freely. I guess there is an assumption that it would be like “The Purge” every day.
Yep, people find it hard to change bad habits.
Glad to hear you’re one of the rural folks. I have noticed that folks in rural areas are different. Regardless of where they are. I guess it comes from having to take care of your own problems. And from nature.
It hasn’t been that long since the welfare state has taken over. Most people who are under 50 would not remember it, but, many over 50 would. For liberty to be able to be expressed a total withdrawal of the government would be necessary and we know they won’t go without kicking and clawing. Start small, like any movement it begins at the bottom and works it’s way upward. the biggest challenge is getting people involved. Seminars, discussion groups, and even reaching out to new friends is a start. One thing that won’t be positive is a public disagreement, take the Tea Party, great ideas, thoughts, but a public attack on the “main stream” politicians was a huge mistake.
If you doubt that, try looking at some old Democrat speeches, you will see a gradual move to the left. Not by politicians alone, but, by the people involved in the party slowly corrupting the policies and constitution of the party (kind of like the government now!). Want an example? http://moneydoc.liberty.me/2014/06/11/the-new-new-deal-is-really-not/. I wrote this awhile back, take a look at WHEN this speech was written, you should be shocked!
