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Objectivist Dad posted an update in the group Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 2 years, 9 months ago
Started reading the non-fiction works, essays etc, and I keep coming across references of Rand, Peikoff etc disassociating themselves in every way from libertarians. Even so far as not holding book signings at a libertarian bookstore because they sold anarchist literature.
Trying to discover more about this. Is it the association with anarchy and…[Read more]
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Cameron T. Belt started the topic Rediscovering Objectivism in the forum Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 2 years, 9 months ago
For about a year now I have really been diving much more deeply into objectivism than I had originally back in highschool in 2009. Ive been reading a lot of literature, listening to a lot of lectures (that I paid for from the ARI) and just generally chewing the material as peikoff would say. I was wondering if anyone else had sort of experienced…[Read more]
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Marsha Familaro Enright posted an update in the group Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 2 years, 12 months ago
Please join us if you’re in the DC area Sunday, February 28th:
What Education Reform Could Be In a Free SocietyRIFI’s Marsha Familaro Enright will be a be giving a guest lecture at the MD Objectivist Society on what education reform… -
Marsha Familaro Enright posted an update in the group Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 3 years, 1 month ago
Subject: Ensure Ayn Rand’s ideas reach young libertarians
Dear Ayn Rand Enthusiast,
Shouldn’t more young libertarians be knowledgeable about Ayn Rand’s ideas?
Here is an unusual opportunity to accomplish this goal.
In February, Students for Liberty will hold the largest student conference in the world for those dedicated to developing a fre…[Read more]
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Marsha Familaro Enright posted an update in the group Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 3 years, 1 month ago
Students, please see this opportunity:
ISFLC Seminar on Ayn Rand's Philosophical Underpinnings of Freedom | FacebookISFLC Seminar on Ayn Rand’s Philosophical Underpinnings of Freedom | Facebook -
P_Fritz replied to the topic The Atlas Shrugged Movies in the forum Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 3 years, 8 months ago
I couldn’t agree more Dana. Totally would make a good 50 period piece in noir style. I’m sure they were running out of budget by the last one, but they never should have started with having jacked up the time period. Now they have to invent all these other explanations for why trains are so important in the future. These films as they are have…[Read more]
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Dana Turner replied to the topic The Atlas Shrugged Movies in the forum Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 3 years, 8 months ago
I own and watched the whole Atlas Shrugged Trilogy (all Reason Special Editions) and all I can say is that the trilogy could have had potential, but they took Ayn Rand’s novel and butchered the living hell out of it.
How many successful moive series are there in the world where every time there is another continuation to the story line with the…[Read more]
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Dana Turner replied to the topic The Atlas Shrugged Movies in the forum Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 3 years, 8 months ago
I own and watched the whole Atlas Shrugged Trilogy (all Reason Special Editions) and all I can say is that the trilogy could have had potential, but they took Ayn Rand’s novel and butchered the living hell out of it.
How many successful moive series are there in the world where every time there is another continuation to the story line with the…[Read more]
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Jorge Trucco replied to the topic Open Objectivism? in the forum Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 3 years, 8 months ago
I agree, Tom.
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Youliy Ninov replied to the topic Open Objectivism? in the forum Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 3 years, 8 months ago
Andrew,
There is no problem with having a closed group. The problem is when you have a closed group while claiming that you are “open”. It is the contradiction that bothers me ( Branden too). In comparison: If I organize a closed group and say that this group is only for orthodox-cristians, then there is not contradiction. Or if I organize an…[Read more]
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Youliy Ninov replied to the topic Open Objectivism? in the forum Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 3 years, 8 months ago
Andrew,
1. Yes, by secede I mean exactly : “out of a state’s jurisdiction, and thus out of its governing laws”
About:”..second its not possible for an individual to simply decide they are not subject to laws.” If this individual is a land owner then he is a private property owner. On a private property one has the right to define his own law…[Read more]
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Jorge Trucco replied to the topic Open Objectivism? in the forum Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 3 years, 8 months ago
The concept of “a government of laws, not of men” is just as mystical and meaningless as democracy. Laws must be written and enforced by men. Therefore, a “government of laws” is a government of men.
– M &L Tannehill – (The Market for Liberty)
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Jorge Trucco replied to the topic Open Objectivism? in the forum Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 3 years, 8 months ago
The Market for Liberty
“When I began reading the Tannehills’ The Market for Liberty, I realised that what I was reading was something quite special. Tucked in this book is a treasure trove of quotes and revelations. This book, in addition to providing me with logical conclusions that had simply not found their way into my head previously, als…[Read more] -
Andrew David replied to the topic Open Objectivism? in the forum Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 3 years, 8 months ago
Again I hope it is not taken personal but I need to make some comments about this post.
Yes she did advocate discussion and thinking for one self. Its not a contradiction if it led to a fairly closed group. It is possible she did not want to engage with people she believed clearly wrong and had no counter-arguments to offer and was simply tired…[Read more]
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Andrew David replied to the topic Open Objectivism? in the forum Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 3 years, 8 months ago
As a student of objectivism, I find myself having to defend Rand everywhere, mostly against academics but also against anarchists. I will try to respond to your points:
1) Its not splitting hairs to say “Rand ‘wants’ a state” is not right. She thinks humans need a state to function in any positive long-range way. An objectivist state’s purpose is…[Read more]
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Andrew David replied to the topic Open Objectivism? in the forum Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 3 years, 8 months ago
As a student of objectivism, I find myself having to defend Rand everywhere, mostly against academics but also against anarchists. I will try to respond to your points:
1) Its not splitting hairs to say “Rand ‘wants’ a state” is not right. She thinks humans need a state to function in any positive long-range way. An objectivist state’s purpose is…[Read more]
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Jorge Trucco replied to the topic Open Objectivism? in the forum Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 3 years, 8 months ago
Agreed, Cameron.
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Jorge Trucco replied to the topic Open Objectivism? in the forum Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 3 years, 8 months ago
Agreed.
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Youliy Ninov replied to the topic Open Objectivism? in the forum Ayn Rand, Objectivism, & Atlas Shrugged 3 years, 8 months ago
Marsha,
“..the fundamental tenet of Rand’s ideas was: make your own, independent judgments using reason and evidence.”
It is one thing to claim something like the above and a completely different one to implement it in reality. Practice shows that people tend to cling to their convictions no matter what. Their convictions can be outright w…[Read more]
Hi. I recommend J. Michael Oliver’s book – The New Libertarianism: Anarcho-Capitalism.
Written in 1972, it’s central thesis is that Anarchism, not Minarchism is the logical political philosophy to be derived from basic Objectivist principles of metaphysics and ethics.
It also stresses the importance of Objectivist metaphisics, epistemology,…[Read more]
To the best of my knowledge, the main issues with Libertarianism according to Rand and Objectivism is a moral one. The disconnect lies with Rand’s view that Libertarianism, despite advocating limited government and free markets, fails to provide a concise moral justification for those positions. I would start with this article for more…[Read more]
@lflinks79
Jeremiah. Good find. I recall this line from “For the New Intellectual”. It is in the first essay. In that essay she explains much of her worldview including her understanding of the history of ideas.
Here’s the quote again:
Anarchism is the most irrational, anti-intellectual notion ever spun by the concrete-bound, context-dropping,…[Read more]
@eliot Who said she was perfect? FTR, who is? Also, the vast majority of anarchists I’ve met cannot explain why anarchy is good, they just feel that it is. Personally I think a true laissez faire society would evolve into a ancap society since private companies would, through efficiency and competition resulting in lower costs, render govt…[Read more]
@lflinks79 Seems to me her objection to libertarians is the same as with everyone else. As you said, lacking a moral, objective basis for the beliefs.
@makiaveli Yes. I of course have much in common with all liberty minded folks. But it distresses me when many have little intellectual and philosophical basis for their positions. Without that it is too easy to undercut oneself and to be sold a bill of goods.
What I don’t understand is why Rand did not like Murray Rothbard. Murray was a deeply philosophical and extremely well educated fellow and very deep advocate of anarcho-capitalism and of libertarianism. This man really new his stuff. I think Ayn Rand and he could have had extremely fruitful conversations.
As deeply as I love objectivism and…[Read more]
@sjatkins So the philosophy should be open to interpretation and mean whatever anyone wants it to mean?
You differ on core principles, then insult them for saying you aren’t an Objectivist?
@makiaveli You have to use your own mind to understand it. You can’t take the word of some purported high priest. I don’t differ on any truly core principles at all. But they call things essential that are not. For instance Rand claimed that no rational woman could ever want to be president. I hardly consider that an essential to objectivism…[Read more]
@makiaveli ARI folk have insulted people deeply committed to objectivism principles and living them because of doctrinal disagreements in rather rarefied areas. The Kelley split is a case in point. By so doing they have decreased the reach of highly essential objectivism insights in the culture. This is really sad.
This was the reason for the Kelley-Peikoff split. David Kelley believed that objectivism was open and should be tolerant to fellow travelers, but Peikoff as you stated completely disagreed with it. So david kelley went on to found the Atlas Society, but you could read more about it directly from him on their website.
@freeelectron
Perhaps Ayn Rand’s greatest fault was in her abysmal choice of “friends.” First Branden and then Peikoff made a mockery of objectivism and destroyed the cultural influence it could and should have had. Perhaps in another generation or two, when their baleful influence fades into obscurity objectivism can flourish as it ought to do.
@freeelectron
I do not give credence to the “toleration” controversy as the real reason for the Kelly-Peikoff split. I think that was just an excuse Peikoff contrived to rationalize to his followers the excommunication of someone he felt threatened his cult status.
@ccspencer so I suppose you’re on the peikoff side of the argument?
@freeelectron
Why would you think that! I said I thought the whole controversy was phony. I don’t have to take sides on meaningless foolishness.
@ccspencer Ok sorry, I think I misinterpreted your comment. I agree its kind of silly but it comes down to control, does peikoff have the control he wants over the message or is it more open ( like a methodology that can be used and applied like austrian economics is a methodology)
@freeelectron
I think it is clear that Peikoff invented the faux controversy as a means to promote his control over the cult followers separate and apart from the alleged issue itself. It was just a way to force objectivists to choose between following him or not. The whole thing makes a mockery of objectivism.
As to the issue itself … If…[Read more]