Ultron and the morality of drone warfare

You must be logged in to create new topics.

Ultron and the morality of drone warfare

  • John Faust

    Let’s talk about Ultron and drone warfare.  Essentially, the whole idea was that Tony Stark was lazy and wanted to make a global police force that made decisions on it’s own.  Psycopathic robots, no emotion, just killing.

    You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

  • Scire
    Privatized world peace

    Tony Stark at congressional hearings, from Iron Man 2

    This is a logical extension of his line in iron man 2.

    Tony stark is a control freak, a natural extension form an addict i would say, but that’s anecdotal, i can’t provide a source/study at the moment. to control the world, make it safe, you write the perfect code and let the machines handle it. but the world changes, that “perfect” code may have had human errors in it, and what worked 2 years ago might suddenly fail. not only do situations change, but so does technology. This reminds of the situation int Tron Legacy with Clu.

    Setting up a system like this, is arrogant, stupid, and only makes sense if you think you can keep the tiger by its tail.

    As a note, robots cannot be psychopaths, they are merely machines, they never have emotion, just responses to their environments they are set up to monitor. The pyschos are the ones that unleash or tell the robots what to do.

    You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

    • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

      Grant Brown

      I think you’re right on the money with Tony Stark being a control freak. In the Civil War storyline he is the lead proponent of the Superhuman Registration Act. I think it’s important to note that his intentions are noble. They’re also so controversial that they lead to an all-out civil war.

      You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

      • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

        Scire

        I’m still not sure how i feel about captain america’s surrender. i think captain america fought the fight the only way he knew how, not realizing what he would bring down on regular citizen’s heads. still gives me conflicting feeling. its hard to even put to words what it is.

         

        You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

          • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

      Zeroth Position

      Robots can be psychopaths if we invent strong AI, which is not that far away.

      You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

      • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

        John Faust

        The definition of psychopathy  is “traditionally defined as a personality disorder characterized by enduring antisocial behavior, diminished empathy and remorse, and disinhibited or bold behavior”  That sounds like a robot that kills without remorse or care to me.

        You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

        • Scire

          a Personality disorder is defined as “A personality disorder is a type of mental disorder in which you have a rigid and unhealthy pattern of thinking, functioning and behaving” by the mayo clinic,

          to have a mental disorder, you must have a brain. if i design a software brain, the brain acts according to my design, whether its the expected results or not. This is different from a real brain. A real brain is something that is healthy and whose health is subject to many factors we do not fully understand and we have not figured out, and presumably, with treatment, can be made healthy again.

          A designed device, whether a car, booby trap, phone, or piece of software will react based on how it is designed. That is not a disorder, it is a result of the design. The only caveat in this, is if Ultron was based on a brain image, you could say he had a disorder based on the underlying brain image, but Ultron was programmed as i understand it, not a result of a brain scan, i believe Vision started as a brain scanned person, and there were rumors that Agent Coulson, who died in Avengers, was possibly Vision in the Marvel movies.

          Feel free to disagree, I am a bit of a stickler for definitions.

           

          You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

        • John Faust

          When is a brain a brain.  If you have an implant in your organic brain, is it still a brain.  What if the implant took up 51% of the brain.  What happens when we discover biological computing (the way the brain works)?  It sounds like you just have a problem with specific hardware the thinking is being done on.

          You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

        • Scire

          I don’t care when a brain is a brain, but the definition of psychopathy is only defined for a fully organic human brain. if you want to expand the definition, then a normal for the new subset should be defined so that the existing vocabulary can be modified.

          As far as we know, psychopathy-type behavior is normal for functional AI. It could be argued that expecting AI to act like a human is ridiculous, as it would operate under a completely different architecture.

          You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

        • John Faust

          Monkeys can have psychopathy, if that is the case.  Why not other organic brains, why not inorganic.

          You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

          • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

    John Faust

    We just did a episode on this. Episode 15 is about Ultron and drones.  http://laissezsquares.com/podcast/episode-15-age-of-ultron-and-the-morality-of-drone-warfare/

    You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

    Michael Bunch

    Grant said it best: Stark is a control freak. His mistake is that he (or anyone) can control others in order to induce universal peace and justice. And in doing so, he creates the opposite. Ultron wasn’t wrong about that.

    You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.