• I have one question for Christians, and I ask it respectfully.

    Do you beleive individuals should be allowed to have abortions.

    I’m not asking if abortion is ethically correct, only if people should be allowed to make their won choice about it. Please be honest.

    • I like to think of it this way: I would not do violence (violate NAP) to someone who has committed an abortion. However, there is a question as to how I should respond to someone given they have done something I have reason to believe is morally wrong. In a libertarian society this would lead most Christian organizations to respond ‘pastorally’…[Read more]

    • Depends on what you mean by “allow”. I agree with what Nik said above. I would hope and pray that Christians would respond with love to someone who has had an abortion while recognizing the abortion act was immoral. It is in essence similar to the question of how Christians would respond to allowing someone to commit a murder.

    • My “progressive” sister asked me the same question. I think that the NAP provides the answer. Pregnancy is a unique relationship of one individual inside, and dependent on another. analogies of other relationships whether used by pro. or anti., miss the point. My criteria for person-hood is a combination of genetic code and Biblical reference.

    • Thanks for the honest answers.

      Todd, since you would consider allowing someone to have an abortion the equivalent of allowing somone to commit murder, would you say it would not violate NAP to use force to prevent either?

      Perhaps this is not a fair question, but anybody can answer. Would you use force to prevent someone from having an…[Read more]

    • That is a tough question. I’m inclined to say that some level of force is acceptable in preventing the murder of life outside of the womb as well as inside. If I saw someone about to stab my friend with a knife, I would try to save my friend. I should probably do the same for a child in the womb who is about to get stabbed.

    • As a Christian, I believe that murder is wrong. Since my morality is based on my religion I say that honestly. There is no offense to be given to people that are not religious, this is just where I derive my values.

      I do not think that the bible says anything about abortion. I believe that humans are formed in the womb and that the fetus should…[Read more]

    • @thelibertasproject Granting a fetus a proprietary right to the use of the womb enslaves the women to the fetus and is a violation of the NAP. The womb is the property of the woman and she has the right to decide how it is used. The fact of the matter is a fetus survives solely on the good will of the mother and that’s all there is to it.

    • Ever heard anyone ask a pregnant woman, “How’s the fetus?”

    • @jfredhale People are ignorant.

    • @justinhale That fetus has a beating heart which makes it a living being. Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness – note the order.

    • @jfredhale So? One living being doesn’t have the right to force another living being to use their body to support their life. If I was dying from kidnay failure would I have the right to forcibly take one of yours?

    • @jfredhale

      A turtle has a beating heart which makes it a living being. But it has no “right” to anything.

      Life does not confer any claim on any other individual, and claims to freedom only pertain to beings capable of making conscious choice. It is, “free to choose,” free to keep oneself alive without interference, it is not free to be support…[Read more]

    • @saunders a bit of a difference between a turtle and a “fetus” I’d say.

    • @jfredhale

      “a bit of a difference between a turtle and a “fetus” I’d say.”

      That’s it? Your only point was that a beating heart made a fetus, “living.” My point is that just being, “living,” confers no rights on anything. You didn’t make any distinction between a fetus and any other living thing. If you have such a point you can make it, but j…[Read more]

    • @justinhale If you invite a person into your house and they fall unconscious (asleep, medical condition, drugs,etc.), then you request the unconscious person to leave and they fail to do so, do you have the right to kill them?

    • @thelibertasproject

      “If you invite a person into your house and they fall unconscious (asleep, medical condition, drugs,etc.), then you request the unconscious person to leave and they fail to do so, do you have the right to kill them?”

      If you are going to use hypothetical examples at least make them plausible. Do you make requests of people who…[Read more]

    • Yes. You cannot forcefully prevent others to do your will. However, if the culture valued life, if life were sacred and society wasn’t so pro-death with the glorification of militarism, and pro-genocide (Palestinians) then perhaps this would never be an issue. Christians are the most intellectually inconsistent group of people, perhaps it’s the…[Read more]

    • I, as a Christian am also grieved at the schizophrenic anti-abortion, pro lets-go-kill-people-who-never-hurt-us mentality.
      The New Testament describes a person who arrives at faith in Christ as a newborn who’s understanding of God, Christ, and discipleship grows over time. A Christian is also susceptible to other agendas. @marchella

    • Abortion is murder & murder is prohibited in the 6th Commandment.

    • @mikereyes

      The question is not about your personal view of the status of the fetus. The question is, do you believe force should be used to prevent a woman from having an abortion?

    • @saunders Should force be used to prevent murder? It’s the same question..abortion is premeditated murder.

    • @mikereyes

      Hi Michael.

      Answering a question with a question is not an answer. I am only interested in what your view actually is. I’m not making an agrument one way or the other.

      I assume (correct me if I’m mistaken) you do believe force ought to be used to prevent abortion. My question is, who or what agency is supposed to use that force? Is…[Read more]

    • @mikereyes
      The SC ruled in Roe that a fetus is not a person and has no rights therefore abortion is not murder.

    • @justinhale It doesn’t matter what some man, or group of men for that matter, says. Abortion is murder. Natural law… GOD’s LAW does not care what man says or how man feels. The TRUTH is true, period.

    • @mikereyes
      Which God? As a Pastafarian my god The Flying Spaghetti Monster says it’s ok.

    • @mikereyes

      How do you know what, “GOD’s LAW,” is?

    • We all have the liberty to go to hell, and commit acts that will get us there, even murder. I choose not to. We also have the liberty to tell people if they do this, you’re going to hell. People are also at liberty to repent of their sins and never do them again. That concept is very Biblical.

    • @saunders it’s easy…HIS Law is in the letter HE wrote to you, the BIBLE.

    • @mikereyes if a cancerous tumor was alive, would you remove it? or is it considered murder too? When a person no longer wishes to be pregnant, that fetus/baby/whatever you wanna call it to make yourself feel better now is inflicting harm upon the person carrying the child. When the fetus no longer has consent to stay in the womb, for whatever…[Read more]

    • Tom Lineaweaver, Michael Reyes,

      It does not matter what you believe. The question is, “is it moral to force others to conform to your beliefs?”

      I picked abortion as the example, but it could just as well be how one dresses, or using pornography, or dishonoring their parents. If you believe it is moral to interfere in anyone else’s life, then…[Read more]

    • @saunders Force is not the best word. Persuade. absolutely.

    • @tomline

      Would you agree, then, that abortion is not a political issue?

    • @saunders Nope. To say that is simplistic. The Supreme Court made it political

    • @tomline

      So which is your authority? Your Biblical God or the Supreme Court?

      I think your answer was duplicitous, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and rephrase the question.

      Should abortion be an issue dealt with by government?

    • @saunders The supreme authority is God.

    • @tomline

      Does your supreme authority condone dishonesty? It is disingenuous to evade answering a direcet question, like, “Should abortion be an issue dealt with by government?”

      Is this how you plan to run your political campaign?

    • @saunders Answer to your first is no.
      Do you understand that the Supreme Court is part of our Government. Roe v. Wade made it a Government issue.
      I am pro-life, along with half of all Libertarians, so yes that will be part of my campaign.
      Forgive me for not answering all questions here. I’ve been in a lot of pain. Been to the doctor yesterday.

  • Ken Jons-un posted an update in the group Religion & Liberty 2 years, 7 months ago

    This is the saddest and also so prevalent

  • This is a link to a play list of our families nightly BIBLE studies in the great book of Romans, chapter by chapter & verse by verse. In this book we deal with the statest favorite scripture for obeance to the state. We’ll see that they are misrepresenting our FATHER’s WORD. These are raw & uncut videos so please excuse the occasional barking dog…[Read more]

  • Ken Jons-un posted an update in the group Religion & Liberty 3 years, 7 months ago

    Question War

    • I liked the article to the very end…

      …until he invoked Jesus, who said, “I came not to bring peace but a sword.” Christians have always been supporters of their country’s wars, proud of their soldiers. Much of Christian rhetoric is couched and militaristic language.

      Good article. The last five sentences contradict the rest of it.

      Randy

    • @saunders not sure what you expected given the group I posted in 😉 However, I think it would be good for an atheist to relate antiwar points to a theist at times.

    • @kenj

      “not sure what you expected given the group I posted in ?? However, I think it would be good for an atheist to relate antiwar points to a theist at times.”

      You’re right, Ken. I guess I was disappointed because the article began so well. I certainly don’t object to the religious expressing their views in their terms.

      I have no use for…[Read more]

  • I just watched this talk on Roger Williams, and I thought it might interest this group. Although the author’s attempts to apply Williams’s arguments to modern questions feel contrived, he actually presents a really fascinating story of a highly influential character in the development of the idea of liberty in general (before Locke) and of…[Read more]

  • Hey Gary, thanks for the input. The answer to your question,”What’s the point,” though it doesn’t lend itself to a brief answer, is traceable to the old-covenant/new covenant relationship. It’s easy to notice that after the coming of Christ, as recorded in the New Testament, the theocracy, ( God directly commanding a nation-state ) of Israel, was…[Read more]

  • What point is there in cherry-picking the Bible to make it appear to be a libertarian document? The Bible is full of God-approved death penalties and massacres. Joshua’s forces murdered every man, woman, and child in Jericho and Ai. Read Chapter 20 of Leviticus. It says to kill people for cursing their parents, to kill people for having sex with…[Read more]

  • Ken Jons-un posted an update in the group Religion & Liberty 4 years ago

    Thoughts on this?

  • Revelation 22:11-13, “Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy. Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”

  • @Daniel Burke I don’t know what variety of Bible you’re reading, but in mine, Deuteronomy Chapter 7 says: “You must not intermarry with them; you must not give a daughter of yours to a son of theirs, or take a daughter of theirs for a son of yours, for you son would be seduced from following me into serving other gods; the wrath of Yahweh would…[Read more]

  • Ken Jons-un posted an update in the group Religion & Liberty 4 years, 1 month ago

    Could you add anything more to this article to make it stronger or more appealing to other Christians? https://voicesofliberty.com/2016/06/02/christian-faith-led-me-to-libertarianism/

  • Amen.

  • I don’t know what brand of Christianity you’ve been examining, but Biblical Christianity, (Where the Bible is considered the rule for what is to be believed and done) does not endorse the initiation of force against the unbelieving.

  • Religion is not only (or even primarily) adopted in childhood. That said, many things that we irrationally believe are those we have been brought up to believe. No one alive today was not indoctrinated in theories of origins built on other than atheistic foundations. Virtually all education is built on the conviction that God did not create…[Read more]

  • The only way I see it could NOT BE compatible is when the religion starts to impose upon the non-believers.

    Another example is if God or Religion were instituted by the Sate. Hence a theocratic form of government.

    A good movie that exhibits this possibility in a tyrannical way is “THX 1138” staring Robert Duvall, it was George Lucas’s first…[Read more]

  • The only way I see it could NOT BE compatible is when the religion starts to impose upon the non-believers.

    Another example is if God or Religion were instituted by the Sate. Hence a theocratic form of government.

    A good movie that exhibits this possibility in a tyrannical way is “THX 1138” staring Robert Duvall, it was George Lucas’s first…[Read more]

  • aoiefh posted an update in the group Religion & Liberty 4 years, 1 month ago

    Hey, just wanted to invite everybody here to my blog on WordPress for fellowship and discussion. I also just started my blog here writing on various political philosophy. I also plan on doing a series on how Libertarianism and Christianity intersect more often than they don’t, stay tuned. Thanks everyone!

    [Read more]

  • A God who roasts people in Hell for what they say about him is a sadist with a desperate need for expressions of admiration. Indeed, i can’t think of anything that could justify eternal torture. Any crime, even the killing of millions, is finite.

    In Chapter 16 of Luke Jesus says that a rich man, after he died, went to Hell, where he was in agony…[Read more]