UK Libertarians – Anyone else bored of hearing about American stuff? ;)

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UK Libertarians – Anyone else bored of hearing about American stuff? ;)

  • Gareth Stone

    “Stop going on about American things…”

    You never hear about some libertarian hero from Ashby-de-la-Zouch or Diss, it’s always ‘Illinois’ or ‘the Beltway’ or some rubbish like that. The TPA like to grope people, alright, we get it. Give it a rest. We need to rectify this over time, get some representation for Carlisle, Grimsby, even Widnes.

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  • Winter Trabex

    Actually, I live in America. I joined this group because I think it might be interesting to learn about what’s happening over in England. You’re right when you say that there aren’t enough people speaking up about the situation in your country.

    Oddly enough, though, I’ve learned quite a lot by following the Occupy Canada group on facebook. They’re all up in arms about how horrible a Prime Minister Stephen Harper has been.

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    Milton

    Im not bored of hearing about American stuff, I love hearing about stuff all over the world :). That being said, id certainly love to talk more about Libertarianism in the UK, or should I say, the lack of Libertarianism in the UK 😛

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    Jeffrey Tucker

    Speaking for myself, I super duper intensely sick of American stuff! 🙂

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      Milton

      Ahh, it aint that bad. Except all the debts and wars and crimes and crazy laws and whatever else goes on in the USA 😛

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    Zain D

    I’ll be moving out there soon so I’d be interested in knowing exactly which of my natural rights will take the greatest punching to the face upon arrival.

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      Milton

      All of them, instantaneously :P, you gotta have a passport to get here, immigration is getting tighter and tighter, taxation is crazy, crazy restrictive laws and there is basically no Libertarian movement. Libertarian ideas either don’t get any attention at all from the media or in mainstream discourse, or they are ridiculed. As im sure you know, in many ways the UK, with most other European nations, is more statist (or socialist?) than the US.

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      Zain D

      Sounds like a jolly old time… at least there will be tea and biscuits.

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        Matthew John Hayden

        And cream teas. And Eton Mess!

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    Daniel Davis

    I know what you mean. I live in Texas and I get so tired of hearing about the problems to the North, East, and West of us. Thank science I am not from a place that has to deal with Murika problems.

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    Gareth Stone

    May I just say – this is totally a joke and, in reality, I owe my whole interest in libertarianism to Americans and Canadians… in all seriousness I’m very glad of all the ‘American stuff’ 🙂

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    James Smith

    I think, in general, the liberty discussion needs to be expanded beyond the US. There is a great absence of libertarian analysis of British issues. I think I’m 1 of 2 libertarians in the Fens, and I’m not sure about the other one.

    Saying that, I find America deeply fascinating.

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      Milton

      Haha,

      I also owe my first contact with Libertarian thought to the Americans and Canadians Gareth. And yeah James, im like, the only Libertarian in Huddersfield, Yorkshire. Its like, pure red Labour territory up here. If you try and talk to anyone about justifications for tax avoidance/evasion or how people will still be taken care of without a welfare state, or how the roads can actually be built without a state, or how, god forbid, Private healthcare is more moral and can work better than Public healthcare (criticising the NHS makes you the nastiest person ever),  youl be laughed out of the town, then they will burn effigies of you, then Owen Jones will materialise out of all the Socialist energy floating around in the atmosphere spouting some half-baked Marxist nonsense bashing you into the ground just for good measure.

      What can I say, life in Yorkshire 😛

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      James Smith

      Oh yes, everyone seems to have a religious reverence for the NHS. Advocate any gratuitous war you want, just don’t touch the NHS, OK?

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      Gareth Stone

      The struggle must be internationalised! Sorry, shoot me. Well… stab me. This is Britain.

      America is totally fascinating. My friend and I were ashamed to realise recently that we could name almost all the 20th and 21st century Presidents in order, but not PMs.

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      James Smith

      Oh my goodness, I’m relieved I’m not the only one! This must be rectified. We must step up our game.

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      Daniel Davis

      I have always been curious about whether American issues are popular in other countries or not. Much of the satire and discussion I have witnessed from my English and Canadian friends always involves American issues. I never could tell if we are a hot topic worldwide or not. We seem to be but as an American it’s hard to tell if I’m biased. On a side note, I really enjoy watching English Parliament. It is fantastically entertaining and comical. Much different than American Government debate where everyone is very stoic on the issues. I could sit with a bag of popcorn and watch Parliament argue for hours.

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      Gareth Stone

      Haha… I’m glad somebody’s entertained by Parliament. We mostly find it embarrassing! Prime Minister’s Questions, anyway

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    Hannah Longford

    We’ll have to wait for this to play out though. The NHS is the elephant in the room. No one wants to admit we have to pay for it to survive. However, it will become increasingly evident we have to.

     

    Ten years down the line we’ll have a more libertarian generation hopefully due to the internet.

    But sadly they’ll be just as many state school educated brainwashed drones banging on about how they hate corporations and stuff.

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      Gareth Stone

      At least education comes from many sources now… as you say – due to the internet. I’d probably still be a statist without it…

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        Matthew John Hayden

        Hella ditto!

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    Milton

    The NHS is indeed a major problem, its already under pressure and the ageing population is yet to peak. The nation is in deficit, as in, the reality is that current taxation is not fully paying for expenditure, so the next generation, the unborn, are being sold into debt slavery. Its just, messed up.

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      Jade

      An even bigger one (£20bn bigger) is pensions. A fifth of the UK’s budget goes on them and that’s only going to increase. We’re witnessing the biggest transfer of wealth from young to old in history.

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      Gareth Stone

      That’s just to keep the current pensions payments afloat. There are also more than £5tn future state pension / state-employee pension promises completely unfunded. No politician mentions it.

      http://www.if.org.uk/archives/2031/ons-reveals-full-uk-pension-liabilities

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    Gareth Stone

    Milton, talking of effigies – I wonder what Americans made of seeing wicker Thatchers being burned in mining towns last year…

    I really think that the nature of the NHS is being questioned across the board now, even by Labourites. I think they’re beginning to feel defeated. Labour are promising to repeal Hunt’s bill and they’re still not getting people behind them… that must be dis-heartening. They never thought they’d have to deal with apathy, of all things… and that apathy is working for us, I think. Well, I’m assuming that we’re all for ending the NHS one way or another.

    And if that grand edifice should fall…

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    Gareth Stone

    To any non-Brits reading this – I’d love to know how the NHS looks from outside. Did you see that it was a major feature of our Olympic Ganes opening ceremony? It’s virtually worshipped here, even now, by millions. Hilarious when you juxtapose that with the actual workings of the system. Not everyone dies or gets scissors left inside their liver or whatever but it’s pretty damned awful.

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    Doug Barbieri

    I had an interesting discussion with a couple of scots in a pub in Edinburgh. Maybe Scotland might be the place ripe for some libertarian ideals?

    http://dooglio.liberty.me/2014/05/16/scotish-secession-and-anarchy/

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      Gareth Stone

      Do you think that if Scotland go independent, it’ll generally encourage libertarianism in Britain? I think it must… the fact that the SNP will be in charge will sully the name of independence for a long time, but I think it still encourages thoughts of decentralisation in all kinds of ways

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    David Hewitt

    This thread reminds me of a Morrissey song called “America is not the world.”

    Gareth, I’m from Belfast and I’ve only ever met one anarchist and  two Austrians. My life is one long argument. I even debate in my sleep. 😛

     

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      Gareth Stone

      Hahaha. Same here

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    Zain D

    Speaking of UK politics, I just watched an awesome episode of Yes, Minister on youtube last night – The Whiskey Priest. There is this great scene in the middle where Humphery and Hacker discuss the role of government. Made me smile from ear to ear. What an awesome show.

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      Gareth Stone

      It’s so brilliantly observed. Every episode is pretty much the same in plot but it works each time. Wonder if our non-UK friends have seen it?

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    Brad L. Farr

    I don’t know what it is about the UK, but people over here seem to like being shackled and oppressed by government more than in most other countries. Near enough everyone I know agrees on the total inefficiency and waste that is the UK government, but absolutely nobody is willing to accept the possibility of an ungoverned society.

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      Gareth Stone

      We’ve got to innovate to undermine that old conservatism here, I say. In America they can appeal to the spirit of the revolution. People here sneer at it and share that shit meme ‘from the Queen’ saying she’s taking America back. Must look pathetic from the outside… I don’t have the smarts to make one that’ll blow it away, haha

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